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12/02/2009 10:09:44 a.m.
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 kathleen
Posts 221
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Mel.
Now you have a few members participating in the subject of photography techniques, how about an exercise for critique? It’s a visual thing then. Put an image on and open it up for critique. Maybe there is a member out there that would like to submit a photo to you for up-loading to get others views and tips.
I can’t stress enough though, that everyone must remember a critique is an individual’s point of view of how their eye sees the image, how they think it could be improved or could have worked better, or great just the way it is. From positive critiques, helpful tips can be given which all can read and maybe take into account in their own photography if it’s helpful. But in the end everyone has to remember that; that’s what it is, other peoples views. What one person thinks is not always what another would do, it would be a very boring world of photography if we all thought and did the same.
If a critique forum is something that members would like to see continue, maybe chillybin could look at doing it on a weekly or fortnightly basis, or something that suits.
Is there any other ideas out there from anyone on this, and would it be an exercise that any would think helpful?
Sincerely,
Kathleen.
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12/02/2009 2:18:36 p.m.
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Mel Posts 166
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Hi Kathleen
This is a fantastic idea, thank you! And one that we would definitely like to pursue!
I'd be keen to hear from other MCB photographers to know:
1) would you like the opportunity to have some of your images critiqued?
2) would you be keen to offer your feedback to those that want it?
3) how often would you like to see an image posted in these forums for critique?
This forum is for you to enjoy, learn from and speak up on...so let us know your thoughts and ideas!
Cheers for now,
Mel
The Chillys
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13/02/2009 7:57:04 a.m.
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 Canon_S.I.
Posts 283
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Hi Kathleen and Mel,i think critique may work well here and help reduce photos get rejected for whatever reason on the site,i get a few sent away and as i normally send my images in by C.D. i could fill the cd with acceptable images.But then there's the question of which images to have critiqued and will professional photographers be the persons in control,as i classify myself as a junior photographer i certainly wouldn't want to have an image critiqued by me,if you get my drift,cheers.
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13/02/2009 1:41:56 p.m.
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kathleen Posts 221
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Hi Canon S.I
Sure! I know what you are saying, but I don’t think helpful tips always have to come from professional photographers, though we do like to hear what a professional would have to say. Don’t put yourself out of reach to others just because you are a novice, they may want to hear how you have acheived some of your stunning shots, like those haybales, wow! Immediate rural feeling, low angle, and the light is wonderful. You may see someone else struggling with that, there is your chance to give some helpful tips on light and angle.
From my experience (and I’m no professional) over the last 10 yrs of being involved in camera club, some regional and national conventions, the novice/junior/beginners sit back and think they don't know enough about photography to critique. This isn't true.
To make a critique, it’s a matter of a desire to help by speaking honestly and constructively. Admit that you are a novice first, but you would like to say…….
If you don't like something about a photo, either the photographer intended it to be that way (in which case you simply have a difference of opinion) or the photographer didn't notice it (in which case your critique will be enlightening).
Or maybe the photographer intended his image to be dark. If you don't like the darkness of it, then probably other people don't as well, and the photographer is made aware of that. But in the end it’s their photo, and if they like it just the way it is, that’s great, they just disagree to agree with your critique, and often will comment back as to why they did it that way and you may get to see the reason in a totally different light.
Anyone that participates in their photos being judged or critiqued, needs to keep an open mind and don’t get offended, go by your instincts on critiques that may seem strange wither it works for you or not.
Most important is to remember there are all areas of photography, keep an open mind, e.g. like news type images, they say if you can’t see what is happening in the first 3 seconds of viewing the image then its lost impact and the ability to engage ones attention.
Our photos here for stock library are all areas of photography for variety on all subjects, portrait, documentary, concepts etc etc. Critique the subject of the photo rather than the photo itself (especially if the area of photography is not your thing). To be negative because you don’t like that area of photography is a no no! don’t bother critiquing.
When it comes to positioning and composition, just don’t spout standard photographic guidelines as if they were the law! The rule of thirds, for example, it is a guideline to what will often work well, not law to always do it. For some photos, a centered composition will be perfect and using the rule of thirds would ruin it, look at some of the photos that are selling on mychillybin. But, if we can make more impact in the stock library, then we bring more attention to the site and all the better for both chillybin and ourselves.
Mel. I would suggest here that if the forum does go ahead, members that want to participate should include with the image what camera gear they are using and the image specs, e.g f/stop, shutter speed etc. This helps when people do critique to respect what limitations or capabilities people might have with the gear they are using. Not that anyone knows all cameras capabilities, but learning to use the gear you have is just as important.
There are websites with camera reviews that can give helpful information to understand the specs of the camera if looked up before making the critique on a technical issue.
Sincerely,
Kathleen.
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13/02/2009 2:28:22 p.m.
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Kiwiangel Posts 101
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I am definitely interested in critiques and critiquing. I have no training either, except what I've self-taught, but I have spent loads of time in online groups that offer critiquing.
I have contributed way more critiques of other's photos than I ever received of my own. It is a seriously great way to learn. Sit and study someone's photo and try to find a reason why you like it or don't like it, then translate it into comprehensible words. It forces you to be constructive and think about every aspect. It truly helps you to identify techniques you want to try, angles/ideas/subjects you hadn't thought of, and things to avoid in your own journey of image capturing.
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13/02/2009 10:23:12 p.m.
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Canon_S.I. Posts 283
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Brilliant explanation Kathleen,thanks for the guide.
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17/02/2009 9:24:38 a.m.
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Mel Posts 166
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Hi Folks
Thanks for the feedback and ideas, this is great!
Just another few questions from me, how often would you like to see an image in the forums for review? If, for example, we ended up having 10 a week is that great or too many or too few?
At this stage we are thinking of having a flexible system where members can upload an image at any time, that is, no restrictions on the number of images submitted for critique. This flexible approach will be a trial and then if its not working for you we can tweak it. However, keen to hear any initial thoughts on this....
Thanks again, we're loving your suggestions and input!
Mel
The Chillys
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17/02/2009 7:57:50 p.m.
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Canon_S.I. Posts 283
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Hi Mel,Perhaps fortnightly with 10 photos as you mentioned, as i don't think many people visit the forums to regular to have a say,and photos on for a week may not get that many views or opinions,just my tuppence worth.
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18/02/2009 12:14:28 a.m.
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kathleen Posts 221
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We have had at this hour I write, 112 views to the topic, there may be an interest there, but they don't seem to be commenting wither they think its helpful or not. So members are reading it.
As you say Mel, a flexible system where members can upload an image at any time with no restrictions on the number submitted for critique would be the best way to see how it works out.
A gallery page could be set up, "Submit for Critique" and when the photo thumbnail is clicked on then another page with a larger view and comment/critique options would work well. They will fill out all the fields required, like member number, camera settings, camera, and any comment they would like to put with it maybe to the area they may need help in. This info all helps the person making the critique.
Have the guidelines all set out of what the critique gallery is and that it is a trial. If we end up with more photos than people have time to critique on, or people don't want to join in and critique and you don't have enough comments being made, then its not going to work.
You don't want people getting disgruntled at a service you are trying to provide because their photo has received no comment. They have to understand that it is a voluntary option if members have time to give some quick helpful tips.
To control the up-load of to many images from one person, one forum I know of, us members can only submit one photo in a 24hr time frame. That helps to control the amount of images coming from one person at once. The web-page will pick up on your member number if you tried to put another one on, with a little message saying you are at your limit, try again at ........hr. Could this be worked into what you are thinking of setting up?
From my experience, people do like to share their photos and chat about them, I think it is something worth trying. Sounds like you have a couple of us interested to help start things off.
Sincerely,
Kathleen.
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18/02/2009 8:40:39 a.m.
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Mel Posts 166
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Hi Kathleen & Canon S.I
Thanks for your thoughts, this is very helpful.
Yes, we are looking into the ability to limit uploads to 1 per 24 or 48 hours per member - working with the web team on this at the moment. Its good to hear that this has worked well for other sites, as it indicates that we're on the right track : )
Mel
The Chillys
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18/02/2009 8:50:18 a.m.
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Canon_S.I. Posts 283
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Hi All,here's something i found useful,don't know if i should be putting it here yet but what the hey :-)
How can you do a photo critique?
1) Look
First of all, take a close look at the photograph. Let your eyes scan it closely: Make sure that you’ve caught every possible detail of the photo. If something jumps out at you as being really good or really bad, note it, but don’t say anything
2) Interpretation
Now, talk about the photo for a little bit. This is the thing that is most frequently overlooked when doing critiques, but is actually one of the most useful things you can do to a photographer. For the interpretation, start off by saying “When I look at this photo, I feel…”. Explain what sort of emotional response the photo raises in you. Follow up with “I think this photo is about…”. Any symbolism you spot, tell the photographer. If you aren’t sure, let them know that.
3) Technical points
The next thing to take care of, is the technical points. Is the photograph technically okay? Did you spot dust, is the exposure okay, is there any unwanted blur (wrong focus, motion blur, zoom blur etc)? Are the colours accurately represented? What’s the contrast like? Could the photographer have used lighting differently? Would a bigger or smaller aperture have been beneficial?
4) Artistic points
What do you think about the crop and aspect ratio? If the photo is in black and white, should it have been in colour and vice-versa? Is there a good balance between the foreground and the background? Would the photo have worked better with a different prop / model?
5) Good points
This is where you point out what you like about the photograph, and why. The why bit is most important: If you can’t tell why you like X, Y, or Z, there’s no point in mentioning it. “I like the sky” is useless. “I like the colour of the sky” is better. “I like the deep blue colour of the sky because it contrasts nicely with the yellows and reds in the photo” is perfect. Put some thought into this.
6) Points worth improving
This point is saved for last, because you’ve made the photographer more confident about their photograph by now. It is still important to remember that the photo has been taken, and that this photo can’t really be changed anymore. As such, there’s no point in slating people for their photographs. Tell them one or two specific points that could be improved on this particular photo (’clean up dust’ and ‘turn into black and white’ are useful suggestions, as they can done in the darkroom), and perhaps one or two points that you would have done differently, if you were the one taking the photograph.
7) Overall
How did this photo appear to you overall?
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18/02/2009 9:28:15 a.m.
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Kiwiangel Posts 101
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Canon, that is a very useful 'checklist' for performing a critique. Thank you for posting it!
Kathleen, I fear over half of those views may have been me checking up on what people are saying about the subject. lol
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