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25/11/2009 9:41:41 p.m.

Mark Thomas

Posts 2 		The DPI shouldn't matter. It is the number of pixels that matter. I think mychillybin should remove this requirement.

(FYI, I have to change the DPI using adobe lightroom, before uploading).
26/11/2009 9:45:49 a.m.

Rosie

Posts 157 		Hi there mcb photographers,

Most printing by graphic designers is done at 300dpi which is why mychillybin require your images to be uploaded as this.

This conversion is done simply by deselecting the resample box and changing the DPI to 300. You will see how the document size and DPI are linked without changing the actual pixel dimensions of the file.

Thanks for all the helpful information regarding the Canon EOS 400D query - much appreciated

Cheers for now.
The mcb team.
26/11/2009 10:20:58 a.m.

Karendpics

Posts 69 		Thanks everyone for your thoughts and very helpful information.
Thanks particularly to Olli, I fully understand dpi now. I have discovered that opening my photos to view in Microsoft Photo editer - basic edition even, if I dont want to make any changes to the lighting or anything, I just rotate and save, then rotate back and save, this seems to do the trick. Simply opening and closing the image doesnt seem to work though.
Thanks again, Karen
26/11/2009 10:32:01 a.m.

oseiler

Posts 10 		Hi Karen,

keep in mind that every time you load and save an image in JPG you will loose some image quality. Regardless of the I'd suggest you look into using some proper photo editing software which Microsoft Photo Editor definitively is not. Check out GIMP, it's free and certainly offers all features that you'll need: http://www.gimp.org

Cheers,
Oliver
26/11/2009 11:02:58 a.m.

oseiler

Posts 10 		Hi Rosie,

Rosie wrote:


Most printing by graphic designers is done at 300dpi which is why mychillybin require your images to be uploaded as this.


Sorry, but this makes no sense. I agree that most printing is done at 300DPI - but that does mean that you need 300DPI images as input.
If you want to print a specific image on a 300DPI printer at 10x10 inches your image needs to have a resolution of (10*300=)3000 x 3000 pixels. If you want to print the same image at 5x5 inches you only need 1500x1500 pixels resolution to start with. So all that matters is the number of pixels on your raw image, the physical size you want to print that image at and the resolution of your printer.
On the other hand if you have an image of 1800x1800 pixels you can print it at 300 DPI quality up to a size of 6x6". Above that size the image needs to be resampled and pixels will be interpolated. If you have a better quality 600DPI printer the same image can only be used up to 3x3". Again, it only depends on the physical size you want to print at, the printer resolution an the number of pixels in your image.

You might also want to read this ("A Note to Print Shops and Graphics Designers"):
http://www.rideau-info.com/photos/printshop.html
http://www.rideau-info.com/photos/mythdpi.html

Rosie wrote:


This conversion is done simply by deselecting the resample box and changing the DPI to 300. You will see how the document size and DPI are linked without changing the actual pixel dimensions of the file.


The fact that you can easily change the DPI setting without altering the image itself proofes that it is totally irrelevant. Also, why should photographers do it before uploading if the designers can change it as easily ;-) ?
The downturn of changing the DPI setting before uploading is that the image will be re-converted to JPG when it is written to disk and by doing so you lose image quality (although it might hardly be visible). Keep in mind that jpg is a lossy compression method. Also it is very annoying if you realise after uploading your images that you'll have to do it again.

Please consider dropping this constraint, it actually gives your desingers lower quality images than they could have and annoys photographers.

Cheers,
Oliver

BTW: the Canon 400D has an APS-C sensor which has a physical size of 22.2x14.8mm (0.874015748x0.582677165 inches) and delivers 3,888x2,592 pixels. If you do the maths you'll find out that it grabs the image at a true resolution of 4448.432432 DPI.
What does that number tell you about image quality and printing? Right, nothing, cause it's completely pointless.
26/11/2009 11:41:16 a.m.

Rosie

Posts 157 		Hi Oliver,

We hear your frustration and appreciate that there is often confusion with the explanations image resolution. You have done a great job of clearly explaining the printing and image requirements - thank you

From the Designers perspective (your clients), when designing a brochure or print collateral for conventional printing (on a printing press), printing companies require the images to be placed into the design applications (such as Adobe InDesign) at 300dpi (actually ppi but referred to by designers as dpi) for maximum resolution quality.

It is common for designers to use the watermarked "comp" provided from an image in their visuals and mock-ups until approved by their client. On approval it is replaced by the high-resolution (300"dpi") image that is purchased and downloaded.

Like many stock image libraries, to assist in making the purchasing/downloading of images straight forward as possible, we provide the images to your clients ready for the design application and off to print.

We hope this helps to explain why we insist the images be uploaded as 300"dpi".

Thanks again for your input - we appreciate your feedback.

Cheers for now,
The mcb team.
27/11/2009 10:41:44 a.m.

Karendpics

Posts 69 		I have heard back from Canon with no real result other than, that is the factory setting and will not affect your picture quality.

Thanks Ollie for your helpful tip re GIMP, I have been trying to avoid using any program for editing with a view to producing for want of a better word 'honest' photos with no manipulation. A program with this option may become tempting, but I just might have to reneg and go with it anyway. Im hoping to sell some photos so I can upgrade my feebly slow computer also, which will allow me to upload more and better programmes.

Cheers all for your thoughts.
Karen
27/11/2009 11:10:59 a.m.

oseiler

Posts 10 		Hi Rosie,

Rosie wrote:

From the Designers perspective (your clients), when designing a brochure or print collateral for conventional printing (on a printing press), printing companies require the images to be placed into the design applications (such as Adobe InDesign) at 300dpi (actually ppi but referred to by designers as dpi) for maximum resolution quality.


Sorry, but you still have not understood the facts around DPI. Again, all that matters is the physical size of that image in the brochure and not the DPI setting. I won't explain it here again, but I strongly doubt that you cannot insert images into InDesign that have a different setting than 300DPI.

Rosie wrote:

Like many stock image libraries, to assist in making the purchasing/downloading of images straight forward as possible, we provide the images to your clients ready for the design application and off to print.


Well, have a look at www.panthermedia.net. They do it correct and provide the following data as a guideline with every image before buying (and do not require any DPI setting on uploads):
Image data:
4288 x 2848 Pixel - (1764 kb) - JPG
150 DPI: 726 mm x 482 mm
300 DPI: 363 mm x 241 mm

Cheers,
Oliver
27/11/2009 11:19:10 a.m.

Mark Thomas

Posts 2 		Hi Rosie,

Do many photos get "bounced" for having the DPI setting too low? I know it took me about 5 or 10 attempts before I got the setting right. And honestly, Oliver is right - it has no effect on the actual photo - although I accept that it probably causes issues for graphic designers.

So... I wonder if the mychillybin website could automatically change the DPI setting for these photos when they are uploaded? It would be a simple change to the EXIF data of the jpeg file - a programmer could probably do that for you.

Just my 2 cents.

Mark.
27/11/2009 11:30:38 a.m.

oseiler

Posts 10 		Hi Karen,

FreedomPhotos wrote:

I have been trying to avoid using any program for editing with a view to producing for want of a better word 'honest' photos with no manipulation.


If you have a look at what your camera does internally to create a JPG file from the raw output of the sensor you'll see that plenty of alteration is already done internally. Obviously this is around brightness, contrast, sharpening, removing noise and so on (and not removing objects that might be disturbing ;-) ). But every vendor has its own flavour and understanding about how images should look like and changes the raw images accordingly (that's also why it might be a good idea to shoot in raw and not rely on the software within your camera).

Thus I see no dishonesty in doing some alterations to a certain degree, especially if you limit it to slight variations to parameters like white balance, brightness, contrast, sharpeness, saturation and so on.

Cheers,
Oliver
27/11/2009 11:58:21 a.m.

Rosie

Posts 157
Mark Thomas wrote:

So... I wonder if the mychillybin website could automatically change the DPI setting for these photos when they are uploaded? It would be a simple change to the EXIF data of the jpeg file - a programmer could probably do that for you.


Hi Mark,

Thanks for your post. We will chat to our web guys to see if there is a solution that would work for both designers and photographers...

Cheers for now,
Rosie.
27/11/2009 3:19:41 p.m.

oseiler

Posts 10
Mark Thomas wrote:

So... I wonder if the mychillybin website could automatically change the DPI setting for these photos when they are uploaded? It would be a simple change to the EXIF data of the jpeg file - a programmer could probably do that for you.


Brilliant idea, Mark!

Rosie, I can provide mcb with a little console application that changes the DPI setting for a single file or a number of files in a batch process.

Cheers,
Oliver
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