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9/08/2011 5:22:58 p.m.

kathleen

Posts 221
Pixelated wrote:

More experimentation means I've discovered the following:

7Ds Custom Function II-2 High ISO speed noise reduction -
I've tested this function now and the manual says that noise reduction is applied to all ISO speeds, but particularly effective at high ISO. At low ISO speeds the noise in the shadow areas is further reduced.

0: Standard 1:Low 2: Strong 3: Disable

With the camera on the default Standard, then setting it to Strong, I found a slight reduction in shadow area noise in low ISO. It is better in high ISOs but I am particularly interested in the low ISO as this is the issue of this thread.

Still, I didn't see enough reduction in noise to help, and can find no other camera function settings that are applicable.

I am looking at my workflow and as I shoot RAW there are a lot more options to deal with this issue than shooting in jpg. I realise not everyone shoots RAW, but I suggest those that shoot jpg might like to reconsider or perhaps conduct their own investigation into this problem, though be aware that camera 'baked' jpgs are more difficult to deal with in post as each save to jpg degrades the image.

I use Lightroom but I think Aperture and other software will have similar functions. On importing there is a default setting in the sharpness and noise panel - the colour noise slider is set to 25 by default, and the sharpness slider to 25 by default. This is input sharpening and nothing whatsoever to do with output sharpening (ie to jpg, print, or whatever).

The Luminance slider's default is 0. And it seems it's Luminance noise we are dealing with here. Currently I'm finding that a default setting of 10 here seems adequate in taking care of noise in the shadow areas without degradation or additional sharpening and provided the exposure was fine initially as I talked about in my post on this. With slightly under-exposed shots this setting needs to be higher. Of course the higher this slider the more you have to bump up the Details slider too. It always comes down to getting it right as much as possible in camera.

Am I making sense here Chillies?


Doing well, thats how we learn to get the best from our gear, trial and error.
Just one note is keep checking the sharpness of your image. The stronger you make the noise reduction in camera can make the image soft in sharpness as it's removing the noise sometimes needed for defining lines like on faces for eyes, nose, mouth etc. You won't get it back in processing no matter how much you try to sharpen it, it's lost detail. Your better trying to remove noise in your processing of the photo with the noise reduction slider and leave your camera at the low or std. Same with sharpening in camera, best to leave that at it's lowest and then sharpen in processing after sizing your image.
Just a couple things I have come across through the years of different cameras for myself. Kathleen.
9/08/2011 6:16:28 p.m.

Pixelated

Posts 107 		Absolutely Kathleen. Any kind of noise reduction needs to be carefully balanced against sharpness and loss of detail.

I didn't find the camera's noise reduction settings much help for low ISO noise anyway, and turned to software in post processing instead. I have found the best bet so far is to set up a preset which I apply on import (in Lightroom) where the Luminance slider is set to 10. This is an average setting for what I want and will cover most shots and isn't strong enough to lose detail.

One has to evaluate the images you want to use out of the shoot and tweak further if necessary, but the setting is a good starting point. Import settings on RAW files are not set in concrete and no data is lost if changes are made.

In the decade or so I've been shooting digital, I've always taken time to thoroughly get to know the tools I'm working with. Nothing is absolutely perfect and once you know the tools and their limitations and imperfections you learn to work around them to achieve the desired result.

This thread about the noise in the 7D piqued my interest, and I thought I'd look into it.

I'd like to know what others have found about this issue.
9/08/2011 8:19:16 p.m.

mychillybin team

Posts 637 		Thanks for all these helpful comments Pixelated and Kathleen.

Often it seems when photographers get a new (bigger and better) camera it takes quite a while to learn how to get the best out of it - perhaps especially the case with the 7D.

Looking forward to seeing some of your 7D images Pixelated when you are ready.

Must chase Canon tomorrow for a response.

the chillys
18/08/2011 12:19:43 p.m.

photohunter

Posts 69 		Just my penny's worth. Stay away from APS sized sensors with high pixel densities. Look at the pixel density of the Nikon D3 etc. Full frame at 12Mpx and as sharp as a pin. Canon 5D MK 2, full frame st 22 Mpx (very sharp and noise free). This equates to half frame at 12MPx. I will never swap my Canon 40D for a 7D because of the pixel density. The larger the pixel the sharper the image and more light into the pixel so you don't have to worry about having to over expose.The pixels in Canon 7D are just too small to give sharp noise free images. Why do you think Canon has dropped the pixel density on their G12 camera back to 10MPx?
Check out the pixel densities at www.dpreview.com for various cameras and compare yours.
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